My background is completely different than Daniel Akin’s. I’ve never had a person close to me abuse alcohol. Nor did I grow up in an environment where alcohol was demonized. But I’ve come to the same conclusion as Akin.
I challenge anyone to show me the superior wisdom of drinking “in moderation,” as opposed to not drinking at all. This is not legalism but love. This is not being anti-biblical but pro-brother and sister. This is not working for evil but for good. Given the world in which we live I believe such a lifestyle honors the Lord Jesus. I believe it pleases Him. Without question it is the wise thing to do.
If you ‘re not already convinced of this view, I commend his brief blogpost to you. If you want to see people try to rationalize an opposing view, read the comments.
We could use the same logic and ask: does watching TV make me a better Christian? Does it draw me closer to God? Does it help me run the race to which I’ve been called? Or what about going to a football game, shopping, the beach, or the mall? Should we abstain from these things as well then?
One consideration I wish people would bring to this discussion is that of culture. Total abstinence from any alcoholic drink is a very American idea. Try and tell the French that they’re being unwise by drinking a glass of wine with their meal.
I think that there are occasions in certain cultures where it would be unwise NOT to taste their wine that they offer you. For one, they would think that Christians are incredibly weird (I could hear them thinking: what kind of a crazy cult are they a part of?). And second, turning down their wine could actually offend them.
Benj – I think we should use the same logic. But alcohol is different than TV or football because it is more likely to ruin your life and destroy your brother. So there are more questions than the ones you asked.
I agree that culture is an important factor in this discussion. Akin’s context (and mine) is that of the American culture. I suggest that we exclude other cultures from this discussion lest it become yet another way to rationalize doing what is unwise in our own culture.
Benj,
I’ve repeatedly heard your argument for possibly drinking alcohol in order to contextualize within a specific culture, but my own experience – for what it’s worth – is quite different.
When I was in Russian language school, I was told repeatedly, if I want to enter into the Russian culture, I would have to drink vodka whenever it was offered. And, I was told it would definitely be offered.
The same was said about wine and other alcoholic beverages among both secular and religious Israelis.
My experience: In the early 90’s, I traveled in a number of soviet states (i.e. dominant Russian culture), and it was true, I was offered vodka as freely as I was offered water. However, I kindly explained why I prefer water or some other beverage, and I never had any trouble. I never got the cross-eyed, what planet did you come from, look. In fact, my willingness to kindly explain why I didn’t want vodka appeared to be respected.
The same has been true as I’ve worked and traveled with Israelis – who typically have a more free attitude about alcohol than Baptists like me. On a number of occasions while traveling with Israelis, I have been invited “out for drinks.” I always accepted the invitation. I drank Coca-Cola, they had beers or other alcoholic beverages. There was no tension because I didn’t make it tense: I just chose what I wanted to drink like they did.
In fact, I have had orthodox Israelis beg me to help their teenage kids move away from alcohol abuse because their rabbis wouldn’t help.
Interestingly, I haven’t had strange reactions from non-believers about me not drinking alcohol. All the push back I’ve had is from believers.
When I studied at DTS in the late 80’s, whether one would drink alcohol socially in moderation was often used as a measuring stick of how “with it” a student really was. Sometimes it felt like consumption of alcohol was the doctrinal distinction between the Baptist and Bible Church students.
My experience is that even in “pro-alcohol” cultures, a kind attitude about my choice not to drink alcohol goes a long way.
I wonder about the purposes of a “resolution.” I wonder why alcohol is targeted specifically. Gluttony is also condemned in Scripture (Prov. 23:2). Why not pass a resolution against overweight preachers? If we reason that abstinence is needed because nothing good comes from consumption, we might argue the same way for bacon. Consuming bacon has no benefit. It is terrible for your health. Regular consumption of bacon has made children fatherless and wives widows. Eating bacon is dangerous because you may want more. All things considered, it is most wise to abstain from bacon. Should we ask all church members to abstain from bacon? No, but perhaps we should call church leaders to complete abstinence from bacon.
Tommy,
If your comparison of bacon and alcohol is serious, I would appreciate you offering evidence of:
1. children born with fetal bacon syndrome, or
2. children being physically abused by a father who can’t remember what he did after he woke up from his bacon induced stupor, or
3. teenage girls who have given up their virginity while under the influence of bacon, or . . .
See, I’ve had at least three generations of family members that over did it with both bacon and alcohol, and can personally testify that the cumulative effects of the latter is far worse than the cumulative effects former.
In fact, there’s really not any real comparison, in my mind. But I’m open to being persuaded otherwise.
But you are correct about this: bacon isn’t the wisest choice of meat source protein.
Craig,
I appreciate your comments.
As far as your own experience in other cultures is concerned, I can’t argue against that. I can, however, speak from my own experience growing up in France. As an MK, we literally live among grape farmers in the outskirts of Lyon. Wine was simply a part of life and nobody gave it a second thought. In this context, I think that it would be foolish to try to go around preaching abstinence. Many of these guys had cellars full of wine from their own vineyards. What are you going to tell the mayor when he invites you over to his house and brings out the best wine in your honor? Maybe there’s a difference between visiting a culture and actually living in a culture.
Also, everybody realizes the the abuse of alcohol has tragic consequences. Living in Scotland for three years I saw first hand how devasting alcohol is to so many Scots. Some people really should be teatotallers.
But I’m just not convinced that drinking one glass of wine or a beer will automatically turn me into an alcoholic. Jesus certainly drank wine and he wasn’t an abuser. (And I don’t buy the argument that the wine back then was so diluted that it couldn’t make you drunk. If this was the case, then why is Paul telling us not to be drunk with wine? Moreover, the OT is full of wine – blessing=land flowing with wine). So if Jesus can drink wine in moderation, and Paul can prescribe it, why don’t we have the freedom to drink it (in moderation of course)?
Benj,
I appreciate your interaction, too.
Having finally read Dr. Akins’ blog post and re-reading what I wrote, I could respond to your response in this way: already asked and answered.
1. You asked,”What are you going to tell the mayor . . . ?” The same thing I tell everyone who offers me alcohol: I kindly explain (if necessary) why I prefer water or some other beverage, and I have never had any trouble.
Whether it’s the mayor or the liquor store owner that’s a member of my family or the guy I’m trying to help out of the gutter, my approach is consistent: I kindly explain (if necessary) why I prefer other beverages.
2. You suggest visiting and actually living in a culture are two different things. No argument from me, there. I’ve done both. In fact, in my previous response, I gave testimony to both experiences: I traveled in soviet countries and have lived and worked among Israelis for the past almost 14 years.
I’m also thankful for the additional 3 years I lived in Israel in the early 90’s, because the two periods give me perspective on how alcohol use has changed in that culture. And, it has. (By the way, 2 of those 3 years I lived with a Russian family, so I was fairly immersed in the Russian immigrant culture, which, for good reason, has the reputation of being pro-alcohol.)
Interestingly, when I lived among tobacco growers in the USA, I felt no need to smoke or chew in order to be accepted among them. At least with grape farmers, there are alternative uses for that which they produce.
3. “Also, everybody realizes that the abuse of alcohol has tragic consequences…But I ‘m just not convinced that drinking one glass of wine or a beer will automatically turn me into an alcoholic.”
This really gets to the heart of Dr. Akins’ post: wisely exercising our liberty. He never said you would automatically become an alcoholic. But correctly recognizing that abuse of alcohol has tragic consequences, he tried to make the argument for loving others by not leading them into a temptation that may (and for multiplied millions has) lead them to destruction. (And, if it wasn’t clear, that’s where I think Tommy’s comparison of bacon and alcohol falls way short.)
4. Just for the sake of accuracy, Dr. Akin did not suggest that wine was so diluted in the first century that “it couldn’t make you drunk.” In fact, based on Bob Stein’s work, Dr. Akin wrote, “In other words, it is possible to become intoxicated from wine mixed with three parts water, but one ‘s drinking would probably affect the bladder long before it affected the mind.”
5. You asked, “So if Jesus can drink wine in moderation, and Paul can prescribe it, why don ‘t we have the freedom to drink it (in moderation of course)?”
Wisdom and love are Dr. Akins’ answer. Here’s a direct quote: [Agreeing with Dr. MacArthur] “Can I say it is always a sin to take a drink? No. Can I say it is almost always unwise? Yes, because it violates the biblical principles of wisdom and witness.” He goes on to say, “Given the world in which we live I believe such a lifestyle [of abstinence from alcohol] honors the Lord Jesus.”
As for me: I don’t believe it’s necessarily evil if you drink alcohol in moderation. But, given your admitted consideration of living in a cultural context, I would suggest that in a Western cultural context, which is increasingly a cultural context of EXCESS, it would probably be wiser to demonstrate the principle of moderation in areas other than alcohol. Perhaps living in a modest house or driving a modest car, which I know you do, is a better way to model moderation than drinking alcohol in moderation.
A simple risk/benefit comparison should demonstrate the superior wisdom of one over the other, even for lost people.
Again, it’s interesting to me that when politely refusing alcoholic beverages among unbelievers, and I’ve done so many times, I’ve never had any push back. I wonder why the only push back I’ve had is from believers.
Thanks for your thoughts, Craig. It ‘s evident that you ‘ve pondered this issue for some time. I was only half-serious about the bacon comparison, but perhaps the tenor of my post was too “tongue-in-cheek” for this topic. I do think it is appropriate to consider the many negative repercussions of alcohol consumption.
One of the arguments I’ve heard from “drinkers” is that it loosens you up, & makes you more sociable & talkative. Yet Todd only wrote a few sentences & look at all the lengthy remarks he inspired!
By the way Tommy, I don’t see Prov. 23:2 as a condemnation of gluttony but a caution against rude behavior & unwise desire. Off the top of my head, I don’t know of any verses that “condemn” gluttony, but several that state the obvious: that it’s not smart. Fortunately, God doesn’t condemn us for not being smart; there’s plenty of other reasons to condemn us.
Suddenly I’m in the mood for a delicious salad with Bac-O’s, & some fresh Concord grape juice…
Craig,
I noticed that one of the comments in #3 above, you quoted Dr. Akin as saying, “he tried to make the argument for loving others by not leading them into a temptation that may lead them to destruction.” This is clearly an issue of love and it is most biblical not to take issue with the wisdom in not causing anothe to stumble (Rom 14). I haven’t seen here as much comment about whether you have a drink in your home alone without the potential to “lead them (others) into temptation.” Paul teaches in a similar context that our freedom is not judged by anyone else’s conscience (1 Cor 10:29), so where does wisdom come into play when we are not risking leading others into tempation? Does “wisdom” demand that we abstain at all times even if there is no chance of leading others into tempation and destruction? Let me assume that the next thought might be, “Well.. what about if someone asks you if you drink moderately? Just the possibility of you having to say that you drink moderately when you are alone MIGHT provide them reason to then be tempted to drink and consequently destruction.” I know this is my own straw man, but this seems a little far fetched for any of us to take that level of responsibility for someone else’s actions. I understand someone else can make the claim that there is no limit to our love. Where do stop? Especially when Paul did teach clearly the FREEDOM for certain things apart from somone else’s conscience or “hypothetical possibility” of being led astray….
Tom,
For the sake of accuracy: I didn’t quote Dr. Akin as you suggest. I summarized the heart of his argument; you quoted my summary.
I think the heart of your post is this: “Does ‘wisdom’ demand that we abstain at all times even if there is no chance of leading others into temptation and destruction?”
1. I wouldn’t say that wisdom “demands” anything from us.
2. I feel more comfortable saying, “wisdom (and love) leads me to do x, y, or z.”
Consider the difference in those two approaches.
I think the scripture is pretty clear that in areas of liberty we have liberty, BUT love (and wisdom) should influence how we exercise our liberty.
It’s possible that the things I’ve seen in life will cause my conscience to be more sensitive (and restricting) in this particular area.